Curse

Despozblehero · Oct 02, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Played some RA today. Had no leavers and no leechers. Looks a million times better than it was before the update... freaking out cause you got a dishonor point once, especially since the system is new, is kind of overreacting, dont you think, lol? In the end its RA...

GladTitleNerf · Oct 02, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

In Reply to Vazze:

Glad Title:
Here is what I was saying about the point redistribution. Those numbers that they multiplied by mean what? Anyone have an answer? They multiplied rank by 4 and points by 6? Why not 7 or 8? What does multiplying by 6 do? And like I said this skews in favor of either low ranks or high ranks. The only way to keep the point/title system even close would be to redistribute on a dynamic ratio of some sort. But simply multiplying by 6 is probably just an arbitrary number they came up with and it now represents all the hours ppl spent trying to earn those very points. If this was taxes and tax brackets and it was your money earned then it might make a little more since.

And as for this change even being necessary? Why? They had to basically dumb down a title in order for it to be more attainable but then people say the title is meaningless period? Obvious contradiction. The title and points should have remained unchanged. Through this arbitrary multiplication, where no one has seen any sort of reason behind those numbers, somebodies points and titles have been effectively lessened. Also, when you make a rank/title easier to achieve than it was before you effectively lessen the integrity of the title as a whole.

Leavers:

Yes, I have already witnessed several times people charging in and dying in order to leave more quickly. Also I have seen syncers which the system sought to alleviate. And, I have had people leave on my own team and the other team. The dishonor hex as a whole was useless and I am really annoyed by all the people that don't give second thought to what action the system prompts. Most of the people that agree with this I imagine don't really play in RA and so they read the update and say GREAT! problem solved. Umm, not really, now we have a new problem that the original problem was in fact trying to solve.

Side note to half the ppl that post here: If you are gonna say "This is great no leavers" then please be a little more detailed about exactly what you are saying. And take note of the general game play that you experience. If you see /resign or someone charging and dying then reflect that in your post.

Glad Points and Leavers:

The idea of leavers helping ppl win was'nt an argument of any sort for the dishonor hex not being in place. That was stated simply as a side note to all the ppl that apparently loathe leavers. I thought with an open mind they might see through a nice little scenario how that small inconvenience might actually allow them to "have more fun". I think we can all agree that getting beat down and not getting rezzed is altogether no fun. But, the ppl that whined about the leavers definitely did not see this afterthought and now we have a far more rigid system in place that seems to hinder only those that wish to abide by it.

And once again, "rank is just a number"? That statement is one that you hear from people with no rank who obviously could care less or enviously care about ranks. If rank is just a number why did the entire ranking system just get overhauled? About the only thing that is just a number is the 4 and 6 that the title and points were multiplied by. Those are meaningless numbers. When you say rank is meaningless but given the choice to make a TA team I am sure your belief that "rank is meaningless" would change and you would naturally choose higher ranked players. Rank = Experience & Skill;To some degree in the least.

Reporting:

I don't need to go into more detail about how this is clearly an update that ppl think will be a cure all for poor behavior in game. In reality, as I said, this will more than likely create far more problems than it hoped to solve. Kinda like this update as a whole. There are not ppl scouring over your reports. As I read earlier this is a skeletal system. If you really want to have someone banned than I am thinkin a screenshot and message to ANET are your best bet. Although, simply telling them to bug off and ignoring them works great as well and is a good rule for life in general. Hall Patrol will not always be around for you when the mean kid calls you names.

One more thing in reply:

How did progress get faster in TA and slower in RA? I mean I can see a difference in that a great team in TA will obviously go farther but unilaterally the point system is equal. There is no inherit difference in the point system. And honestly I think crippling RA's ability to gain points in comparison to TA's would probably be a bad move. RA in this state is already crippled enough.

Another thing to think about:

RA was and is the most popular PVP. I realize that a game called "Guild Wars" would lead you to believe that GvG is the most played PVP and ppl that HA exclusively will also tell you that HA is the most important. But, numbers alone will tell you that the amount of people in RA always exceeded both GVG and HA. People obviously spent a lot of time playing here and earning glad points along the way. The update as I have said seems altogether short sighted and hasty and the problems it sought to solve were compounded. Perhaps a more tentative approach should have been taken for Guild War's most popular PVP.

Thanks Vazze for the reply and gl.

lacasner · Oct 02, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Actually, it's making the game social again, by removing anti-social elements.

By making people log off of gw? Yes, perhaps the remaining group is more social when we just look at what is left, but I would always prefer more players to more "random, wammo RA joe's" talking and Riposting' each other to death.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Oct 02, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

update is pretty stupid and sortsighted, ppl who are praising it seem to be the ones that only play ra once a week or very rarely at all, it pisses me off that they are so dillusional of what is in fact happening.

Gattocheese · Oct 02, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I think its a step in the right direction. There was a major problem before with leavers and leechers ect.. Now the system is new, let them work out all the bugs first.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Oct 02, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I don't like the dishonorment system in general... the /report seems pretty annoying too... I mean I can see fixing the ab leeching problem, but even when i played ab and having 1-2 ppl missing We still won(luxons lol) so I dunno.

In ra ... leechers just wasnt a problem to me. Leavers were only because people were trying to make the most out of their time. Now no one can, and it only makes everything so much longer than it should be.
Your not going to get rid of somethng that is a feeling within everyone. Everyone wants to save time, and not waste it, you can't get rid of that by putting new laws in its place...

bungusmaximus · Oct 02, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Wow, just wow, I played RA last night and it was actually GOOD. The dishonour system works if you ask me, I went in there for 30 minutes and I could actually PLAY for 30 minutes instead of wasting time. I think the fix was a very healthy one. Most people are sports anyways and /resign when the odds are overwhelming, I didn't see any griefing yet.

Mohnzh · Oct 02, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

This is great. The extreme majority of negative comments are pure speculation of "this is no good because ppl will abuse", yet all the positive comments come from people that have actually EXPERIENCED the positive impact. Yes, there are a few genuine negative comments from people who got the bum deal, but the majority is just pure speculation. Don't be surprised that ANet will recognize not to include the speculative comments in their decision making. It is wasted space on this thread and only discredits gwg as a reliable source of player input. It's nice that after seeing all the threads saying "do something about the leechers" and "give us a /report command!", that ANet listened and gave us exactly what we asked for. If you didn't want it, it might have made more sense to voice your opinion then.

HawkofStorms · Oct 02, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoldyRiceFrenzy

In ra ... leechers just wasnt a problem to me. Leavers were only because people were trying to make the most out of their time. Now no one can, and it only makes everything so much longer than it should be.
Your not going to get rid of somethng that is a feeling within everyone. Everyone wants to save time, and not waste it, you can't get rid of that by putting new laws in its place...

By eliminting the ability to leave matches though, you do what RA was meant to do in the first place, act a training ground for PvP. RA was never meant to be competitive (one of the reasons I think adding the glad title there at all was always a mistake). RA was meant to train people how to work together in a team, use res sigs, and learn about positioning. You can't do that if you quit the match to "save time."

Avarre · Oct 02, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despozblehero

Played some RA today. Had no leavers and no leechers. Looks a million times better than it was before the update... freaking out cause you got a dishonor point once, especially since the system is new, is kind of overreacting, dont you think, lol? In the end its RA...

Tried RA, had no leechers or leavers either.

Instead I sat through a few dozen teams that did not know how to use res sigs, had terrible builds, and got eaten alive by balanced teams that happened to form. I especially like the kill count maps where it's clear you'll lose within 5 seconds, and people refuse to resign so you have to sit through it for 2 minutes.

Not to mention the usual pack of runners that now, instead of leaving, just run away. Woohoo.

I guess it doesn't really matter.

Inde · Oct 02, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Any insult to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. Please keep your posts on-topic and contributing.

birdfoot · Oct 02, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Wow, Guildwarsguru.com is still very much alive! It's been quite awhile since I've come back in here.

I think the dishonorable system should work like this:

1. Any player that leaves a match (currently I'm only thinking of PvP in mind) before it ends (via mapping somewhere else) is treated as a "leaver" and gets a 10 minute dishonorable status that decays only when the player is logged on.

2. If a player is idle (no movement/actions received by server, likeliness of AFK leeching) in a match for say 3 mins, he/she is kicked out of the match and treated as a "leaver".

3. If a player is disconnected from a match (sudden network problems), the system waits for the next 3 mins to see if player re-connects. If the player reconnects within the stipulated time, he/she can continue with the match as per normal; otherwise, kick player out of match and tag player as "leaver" (dishonorable status will persist upon next logon). For this portion, I understand that it may be harsh on those that have genuine network problems, but the penalty is just a short 10 mins.

4. All players that leaves or is kicked out of the match should be replaced by the next person in queue. For this to happen, it is likely that the way current PvP queuing needs to be changed. This point may not be applicable or occur the same way for all PvP matches but it may work as below:

a) For RA, if a player leaves in the middle of a match, that player slot is not immediately replaced. But if the team (with the leaver wins the match), the empty slot is replaced with a new player for the start of the next match.

b) For AB, there should not be a need for a player to be in a group to play it. Instead, provide 2 options to join an AB battle: Enter Mission (as Individual) / Enter Mission (as Group). The group size can be kept at 4 (as of current) but do allow members of the other parties to be shown on party window in the match. When a player leaves an AB match, immediately match-make another available player (currently awaiting a game) to join in and balance up the situation.

c) For competitive missions (e.g. Fort Aspenwood), I feel that it would be good to change it to the same format as what I suggested for AB, i.e. players can form group of 4 to join as well. Basically, this would be similar to my suggestion for AB, an empty slot is quickly replaced by a new player to balance up the situation.

d) For Guild/team-formed PvP match types (e.g GvG), no replacements need to be done. I feel that the guilds/teams themselves should manage leavers on their own. E.g. if a member needs to leave urgently and the whole team is aware, he/she should not be penalized.

5. Players who join a (non-guild/team-formed) PvP match should be able to choose whether they wish to join the "First Available" match or "New" match. Those that pick "First Available" will be put into a queue where they can replace empty slots as a priority. The ones that picked "New" match will always have to wait for the next available match where they will always start form the beginning of the match.

So far, the above 5 points is to tackle issues with leavers and leechers (in PvP only). The flaw in the above is that while it may easily identify and punish leavers and AFK leechers, what about active leechers?

Basically, that's where the /report system could come in, although I can't see how it can't be abused by players who team up to 'bully' another player. Players should be given a limited number of chances to use /report to report a player each day (say maybe 5). If a player is deemed an active leecher, other players may cast a vote (anonymously) to flag him/her as a "leecher". When the "leecher" has collected say 30 votes (from different players) for the entire day (based on game server time), the player immediately gets a dishonorable status for the next 24 hours which decays even when the player is logged off (different form the 10 minute one I suggested at the beginning).

I apologise if some of the things I'm saying don't make alot of sense for GW but that's because I haven't been playing the game for a long time and I don't PvP much in GW; I can't say I know much about how the GW server handles PvP match-making either. I draw the above ideas from WoW (where I PvP alot) which I felt Blizzard has imposed quite adequately and may work well for GW. It's impossible to eradicate/prevent all leechers since there needs to be an obvious pattern for the system to know that a player is indeed a leecher. However, there could be methods available that can somehow minimize the number of leechers.

Healers Wisper · Oct 02, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

You know what, I started ABing and RA after this was implemented. No reports on me, and I reported one guy for running around behind me casting Blood rit the whole time. (bot and leeching). Ran into a couple of odd builds, even brought a horrible build myself and declared it on the team chat and appoligized for not changing it before hand cause I was a noob. No report.

The system works. Like gaile and several others have said, I think the claims are a little inflated about the abuse here. Also I wonder if the people complaining the loudest are the one acting in this way and are getting dishonor racked up for false claims and are mad about that.

To the op, I highly doubt you just said POF was anti-melee. it was prob more like PoF is anti-melee you fing noob. Then you get reported and the line is I did nothing wrong. In fact, you did (in that case). You insulted someone for daring to challenge your build. I belive this system will work. I also think to tweek it, anet should give large amounts of dishonor to people who falsely report.

Healers Wisper · Oct 02, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mohnzh

This is great. The extreme majority of negative comments are pure speculation of "this is no good because ppl will abuse", yet all the positive comments come from people that have actually EXPERIENCED the positive impact. Yes, there are a few genuine negative comments from people who got the bum deal, but the majority is just pure speculation. Don't be surprised that ANet will recognize not to include the speculative comments in their decision making. It is wasted space on this thread and only discredits gwg as a reliable source of player input. It's nice that after seeing all the threads saying "do something about the leechers" and "give us a /report command!", that ANet listened and gave us exactly what we asked for. If you didn't want it, it might have made more sense to voice your opinion then.

QFT............

HawkofStorms · Oct 02, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Tried RA, had no leechers or leavers either.

Instead I sat through a few dozen teams that did not know how to use res sigs, had terrible builds, and got eaten alive by balanced teams that happened to form. I especially like the kill count maps where it's clear you'll lose within 5 seconds, and people refuse to resign so you have to sit through it for 2 minutes.

Not to mention the usual pack of runners that now, instead of leaving, just run away. Woohoo.

I guess it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, well you'll always get newbs in RA. It is a training ground after all. Nothing you can do about that. At least runners and invincible builds are no longer useful.

GladTitleNerf · Oct 02, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Speculation. Seems to be getting regurgitated in respect to the update and the negative views towards it. Regurgitated btw means you continually throw it up then eat it again but in this since means that you read it in one place then repeated it.

Yes there are far fewer leavers. Please read my prior post to see what the people who previously left do now in order to "leave". This is not speculation this is common sense.

Someone please tell me where anyone officially said RA is a training ground for PVP. I am tired of hearing this speculation that is based upon nothing whatsoever. RA is the most popular arena for PVP. Go and look at the numbers if you don't believe me. Stop degrading the integrity of the Arena by insisting it is practice. If it were practice then why would they have gone through the trouble to readjust point system and change player behavior in a training arena?

And does anyone care to address the point redistribution at all or are we all just looking the other way or simply blissfully ignorant. Please read my prior post where I address this. No this is not SPECULATION this is in fact a record of what actually happened.

Also in my prior post: 1. The system helps bots. 2: Reporting is and has already proved to be useless and counterproductive. 3: Invinci Builds and Longer matches in general due to time limit and a player reaction to survive longer due to time limit. If any one has played they have seen both a spike in healers and in invinci builds. This is from experience and clearly makes since in light of the update.

SPECULATION: People who are satisfied with this update are not very experienced RA players and have yet to read my prior posts. By not experienced I mean they didn't play very regularly before the update and play very seldom thereafter. Not to be insulting but I would say that none of the people whom have read my post and posted here and agree with this update thereafter would be higher than Gladiator Rank 4. And that is me being conservative. I honestly think that Gladiator rank 3 is more likely. So if you don't really have much experience and choose not read the prior post but simply wish to throw in your two cents in regards to an update with a two line explanation of the update feel free to do so but understand that your opinion is largely speculation since it can be assumed you don't really know what you are talking about. You seldom played before and are not really playing now and it's likely that your interest lie in another form of PVP or PVE. Kind of like a dog catcher giving his opinion on brain surgery.

And: Please someone. Anyone. Explain the point redistribution. Does anyone dare. Probably not since all they would have in reply is SPECULATION.

I hope you enjoyed our adventure with the word of the day, SPECULATIONONONALATION. Now go use it as much as possible.

Antheus · Oct 02, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

People who are satisfied with this update are not very experienced RA players and have yet to read my prior posts. By not experienced I mean they didn't play very regularly before the update and play very seldom thereafter. Not to be insulting but I would say that none of the people whom have read my post and posted here and agree with this update thereafter would be higher than Gladiator Rank 4.

Ah, so r3 noobs cannot comprehend the intricate inner workings of the complexity that is RA...

Here's the thing.

PvP is for all.

Quote:

And: Please someone. Anyone. Explain the point redistribution. Does anyone dare. Probably not since all they would have in reply is SPECULATION.

This thread is dedicated to whining over /report, not over change to glad title. For some reason, nobody is whining over that.

Quote:

I hope you enjoyed our adventure with the word of the day, SPECUALTION. Now go use it as much as possible.

I will SPECUALTE that this was a typo?

GladTitleNerf · Oct 02, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Ah, so r3 noobs cannot comprehend the intricate inner workings of the complexity that is RA...

Here's the thing.

PvP is for all.

Yeah PVP is for ALL. Your point? Mine was that I believe, and this is speculation, that most of the people commenting on their experience rarely played and still rarely play. A low rank would signify that. It was not to be judgmental. I will also speculate that people see ranks and titles in these post and immediately go on the offensive regardless of the rank/titles context.

Quote:

This thread is dedicated to whining over /report, not over change to glad title. For some reason, nobody is whining over that.

For some reason no one is whining over the title redistribution. Well I am. And no one has come up with a single answer so should I stop? And this post is not simply about the /report feature. It has become a thread on the update as whole. I can go through and cite several examples of this throughout the thread. And when you complain about ppl whining arent you just whining about whining? When ppl say whining it is demeaning. Aren't the whiners the people who helped create this new update? Are all the negative posts ppl whininng? We need ANET to setup an Anti-Whiner system apparently to help us with that too.

Quote:

I will SPECUALTE that this was a typo?

Now please answer a question I have presented or give some sort of better understanding to the topic itself. Don't post here with grammar corrections and statements that prove to be completely irrelevant to the topic.

Also, r3 being noob is an opinion all your own. I speculate you're probably not r3 or higher but nowhere did I say r3 was noob. I simply said they probably don't RA as much as higher ranked titles. This was probably a mistake to say but I feel like its an honest speculation and if you read my prior post you might agree.

Once again, make some sort of sensible contribution. Try and answer the questions posed. And plz don't resort to grammar patrol. We already see enough of that in game, along with the classic age insults and mom jokes.

I speculate you got verbally pwned. jk.

zwei2stein · Oct 02, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Three hours of RA (inter dis as starting location, decided not ot play till called noob.). Practically all matches were what i would describe "fun".

Since matches were 4vs4, very few were piss easy thanks to quiters, so dificulty ramped up a bit. Seen few useless builds and players ofc, but its not like RA is serious business. Higher dificulty is gonna weed them out now that "leet" players stay in game to teach em lesson.

The only bad moment was:

Funny that team oposing this "kill me" wammo was the one to protest more against his actions. Especially after facing him twice. 3vs4 is not fun, even if you are on the 4 side.

Antheus · Oct 02, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

I speculate you got verbally pwned. jk.

/sigh

Thank you for meaningful contribution, Mr. Pulitzer.